11 Year Old Killer

[Sephiroth]

this may not be so recent but still it's crazy shit.

PITTSBURGH (AP) — An 11-year-old boy accused of killing his father’s pregnant fiance had been threatening the woman for at least two months, the woman’s mother said Tuesday.
Debbie Houk said Jordan Brown often gave 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk a hard time, especially when his father wasn’t around. Brown and his dad Christopher lived with Houk and her two small daughters in a farmhouse in the rural western Pennsylvania town of Wampum.
“It’s been at least two months that he’s made the threats,” Debbie Houk said, adding that Jordan “just bucked her (Kenzie) a lot when his Dad wasn’t around.”
“Chris was good about it. He tried. He told him, ‘Don’t you ever disrespect her,”’ Debbie Houk added.
Jordan Brown was charged as an adult Saturday with killing Houk and her unborn baby boy the day before as she lay in her bed.
Authorities believe the killing was premeditated. They say Brown came downstairs with two guns, but returned upstairs after Houk’s 7-year-old daughter saw him; they believe he then hid the gun in a blanket and came back downstairs to Houk’s bedroom and shot her in the back of the head.


Later, the 7-year-old girl told police she saw the boy drop something on the ground from his pocket before they got on the bus. Police said they found a spent shotgun shell in the same spot.
On Monday, Jason Kraner, Kenzie’s brother-in-law, told several reporters the boy also told his son he wanted to kill Kenzie and her daughters.
“Jordan had told (my son around Christmas) he was going to pop Kenzie in the head and pop both kids. We didn’t believe it. ... We told Chris and Kenzie and they didn’t believe it,” Kraner said.
A funeral for Houk and her baby boy, who was named Christopher after his father, was planned for Tuesday evening.
The boy’s attorney, Dennis Elisco, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Tuesday. Elisco has said he had no indication the boy had a problem with Houk.
Brown is being held at the Lawrence County Jail, in a cell isolated from the adult inmates. Elisco filed an emergency motion asking a judge to set bail so that the boy might be released to his father.
A court hearing has been scheduled Monday for 9 a.m. on that request. Elisco contends the boy can qualify for bail because he is not a flight risk and cannot face the death penalty because of his age.
Debbie Houk said Jordan, a hunter, knew a lot about guns and was a good shot. On Valentine’s Day, he beat out many older and more experienced hunters at a turkey shoot.
“I’ll never cook that turkey. It’s the same gun that killed my daughter,” she said. “So he knew what a gun did. He knew the dangers of a gun.”

Wow this is totally messed an 11 year old, killing two people technically.
What is this world coming too. It even stated he could have gotten the death Penelopa but didn't qualify because of his age. I say screw it he murdered a woman and an unborn baby. He deserves to die. This may be harsh as he is also a kid. But how many of us have even held a gun and shot a living thing with it. Not very many unless your dad is a hunter or you just like going to the firing range.

Crazy mofo kid and his crazy 11 year old adult sentance. xD

[Mellusia]

Imma move this thread over to Serious Business & Debate since it's not game, anime or Japanese related news and it's a decently serious topic.

Anyways, yar, f-ed up indeed X_x

I can't help but think the boy was feeling the typical isolated feeling of having "strangers" intrude on his family (i.e. his dad). I know that kids feel insecure when new people show up in their lives, and I'm sure there are those that feel even more wary when it's "strangers" and not new family members general.

But the question being should he be executed despite his age? I dunno...

In general, I don't support the death penalty, even though I admit that there's probably some people that deserve it, so no, I don't think this boy should be executed.

But I find it hard not to support the sentenced as an adult. A 11 year-old, yes, but at some point the "he/she didn't understand what they was doing 'cause they're too young" argument can't really hold up well.

Really, this is just a damn shame *shakes head*

[Fuyumine]

Wow, uh... just. Wow. I am not sure what to think right at the moment. I mean, other than "Holy fuck!" Like, even though it's practically explained, I really can't fathom as to why. Like, what would make a kid go to those extremes. What would make a kid hate THAT much?

[Sephiroth]

What would make a kid hate THAT much?

Depression?
Insecurity??

Iono maybe he just didn't like the fact his daddy was with someone else and spending more time with them. He was jealous

[BlackJack]

I know this will sound funny, given our circumstances, but does anyone else think that this sounds reminiscent of a horror movie?

A woman with two daughters has a man and his son move in with them. They live in a farmhouse in a rural area. He psychologically tortures the mother before finally murdering her and her unborn child. Creepy, much?

And he should be tried as an adult, as he clearly knew what he was doing and understood the consequences. And, being tried as an adult, he should be punished to the full extent of the law. If he's gonna be tried as an adult, he should be punished as an adult. If that means the Death Penalty, then so be it.

[Daesy]

I know this will sound funny, given our circumstances, but does anyone else think that this sounds reminiscent of a horror movie?

A woman with two daughters has a man and his son move in with them. They live in a farmhouse in a rural area. He psychologically tortures the mother before finally murdering her and her unborn child. Creepy, much?

And he should be tried as an adult, as he clearly knew what he was doing and understood the consequences. And, being tried as an adult, he should be punished to the full extent of the law. If he's gonna be tried as an adult, he should be punished as an adult. If that means the Death Penalty, then so be it.

I agree. I mean he knew what he was doing. Its just sad that you hate a person soooo much.

[Ryvius]

I can see why they wouldn't give him the death penalty, he's young enough that he can actually be turned around. It's a slim chance, and I'd probably kill him if it was up to me, but there is still a chance.

I'm sure there's a lot to the story that we'll never know. That kid's circumstances are probably terrible, and I doubt they'll get better. I hate shit like this. I always get depressed when I hear about kids murdering people.

[Sephiroth]

yea it make's me sick to the stomach to picture myself 11 years old I was a happy kid, riding my bike playing soccer stuff like that. This kid will be in jail for who knows how many years. All he will reamber is Jail and the night of the murder.

[ack!]

That's fucked up. I don't think he should be allowed bail, and I think he should stay in jail for a very long time. I agree: it seems obvious that he knew what he was doing and what the consequences are. He's still young and MAY turn around, but I just wouldn't trust it. He wants his sister dead too, and who's the say that it will stop him from doing that?

[dthc]

His brain as of yet is not developed enough to understand his actions. He was a hunter and he killed for food. Killing for food is a means of providing well being. Killing that woman provided well being as well. All I'm saying is, our prisons are full of people convicted as kids that had no clue what they were doing. Realistically, for him this was probably a cry for help. No one cared what he said or did pretty much. He told people he'd do it and everyone ignored him, so he did. He doesn't deserve the death penalty for that, just therapy. Maybe after the therapy, they'd see that it was just his nature and sentence him to the death penalty, but it's not his fault that his circumstances sucked. There's clearly more to this story than we get to know.

[Fuyumine]

His brain as of yet is not developed enough to understand his actions. He was a hunter and he killed for food. Killing for food is a means of providing well being. Killing that woman provided well being as well. All I'm saying is, our prisons are full of people convicted as kids that had no clue what they were doing. Realistically, for him this was probably a cry for help. No one cared what he said or did pretty much. He told people he'd do it and everyone ignored him, so he did. He doesn't deserve the death penalty for that, just therapy. Maybe after the therapy, they'd see that it was just his nature and sentence him to the death penalty, but it's not his fault that his circumstances sucked. There's clearly more to this story than we get to know.

I share some of those sentiments.

On one hand I think he was fully aware of what he was doing.

On the other I think he had no clue.

I know that might seem nonsensical, but... the human mind is a lot more complex and mysterious than we give it credit for, especially the minds of children. I think what's blowing my mind about all of this is the fact that this eleven year old boy had that much resolve to actually shoot his stepmother, and the fact that he had thought it over and even warned everyone that her end was coming.

In my personal opinion I would say that he may be a sociopath, and that it'd perhaps be unwise and unsafe to let him back out into the real world. But then again, I am extremely cynical, so yeah.

This shit reminds me of that Caulkin movie The Good Son.

[BlackJack]

His brain as of yet is not developed enough to understand his actions. He was a hunter and he killed for food. Killing for food is a means of providing well being. Killing that woman provided well being as well. All I'm saying is, our prisons are full of people convicted as kids that had no clue what they were doing. Realistically, for him this was probably a cry for help. No one cared what he said or did pretty much. He told people he'd do it and everyone ignored him, so he did. He doesn't deserve the death penalty for that, just therapy. Maybe after the therapy, they'd see that it was just his nature and sentence him to the death penalty, but it's not his fault that his circumstances sucked. There's clearly more to this story than we get to know.

Assuming what you say is correct and this is not evil, just misguided instinct, the he should be locked up, and prevented from acting on his harmful instincts. when I was eleven, I got angry at my mother often, but I never even entertained the idea of killing her. This isn't basic human instict, it's insanity.

And insanity is, once again, assuming that he really didn't know what he was doing.

[dthc]

Assuming what you say is correct and this is not evil, just misguided instinct, the he should be locked up, and prevented from acting on his harmful instincts. when I was eleven, I got angry at my mother often, but I never even entertained the idea of killing her. This isn't basic human instict, it's insanity.

And insanity is, once again, assuming that he really didn't know what he was doing.

Instincts are different for different people in different situations. He isn't automatically insane because he does something wrong, no matter how wrong. He got the impression from everyone around him that killing her wouldn't be a big deal. It isn't a big deal when he kills other things and they didn't take it seriously enough for him to take the situation seriously. My point is, it's not your place to decide whether or not he lives or dies as much as it wasn't his to decide for her. You don't know anything about this other than a news article posted in a forum and you're talking shit about a possibly crazy 11 year old. Realistically, no matter what happens the rest of his life is going to suck worse than it did before he killed her, so he obviously didn't think shit through. He tried to hide his crime somewhat, but he's a child; children hide anything they do wrong. He didn't understand that you can't just kill someone and have your problems be fixed, so he shouldn't be punished like someone who does.

[BlackJack]

,Of course it's not my place to decide. I'm not a psychologist or a judge or even a cop. I'm just a guy sitting at his computer giving his opinion in a debate. Just like you. So I'd appreciate it if you didn't make an attack against me for it. I didn't call you out for disagreeing with me, and it would be nice if you'd do the same.

[dthc]

,Of course it's not my place to decide. I'm not a psychologist or a judge or even a cop. I'm just a guy sitting at his computer giving his opinion in a debate. Just like you. So I'd appreciate it if you didn't make an attack against me for it. I didn't call you out for disagreeing with me, and it would be nice if you'd do the same.

This isn't a disagreement thing though, I'm just encouraging all to be neutral on the matter. Perhaps someone could research the case more and find information that was a bit more damning before we metaphorically kill an 11 year old child. I was originally responding in general and after you responded to my original post, I responded to yours. Nothing more, nothing less. Your opinion on the matter differs from mine and it will no matter what I say. It takes a lot more to sway some people than it does to sway others.

I suppose my opinion is somewhat swayed because the U.S. signed a treaty awhile back with some other countries saying that they won't kill children for their crimes because that's wrong. They also weren't supposed to imprison them for life, but they do that regardless. Anyway, we studied this in sociology and there's no way that he can comprehend what he's done.

[BlackJack]

This isn't a disagreement thing though, I'm just encouraging all to be neutral on the matter.

Isn't this a debate? It's in the Serious Business and Debate thread.

[Sephiroth]

Isn't this a debate? It's in the Serious Business and Debate thread.

hahaha nicely said. Yea this is in the debate section.

[Contra Fates]

I highly, highly disagree with people saying his mind wasn't fully developed and that he didn't know what he was doing. I'm just going to refer to that child as 'Damien,' because that's what he really is. The previous cases of young killers were not this malicious, not premeditated, nor did the kid hunt and threaten his pregnant mother, and brag to his family/friends that he wanted to kill his family! This child was deeply, deeply disturbed.

Even if his brain wasn't fully developed, he knew, full-well, what he was doing. Like a little kid building a model plane, this kid was planning a murder.

If his own father couldn't prevent him from killing his soon to be step-mother, than nothing in life could sway him. He's wicked, degenerate, damaged goods. A poisonous threat to society. I hope they lock him up and throw away the key.

[dthc]

Isn't this a debate? It's in the Serious Business and Debate thread.

I was working under the impression it was, but then you got your panties in a bunch of being debated with. I dunno what it is now, but in a debate we'd actually be debating. Anyway, my point is, we don't know Why he actually killed her and this is short of debate because it's all speculation. I ask for evidence of your conclusions and get none. We don't know if maybe she abused/molested him and we probably won't for awhile. I just don't want to base my opinion on only an article featuring quotes from the victim's mother...

[Fatal Impurity]

I personally think the kid knew what he was doing but didn't realise what effect it would have on his life and the consequences it would have on him. Maybe he was even counting on the fact he was young enough to get away with murder...literally.

I understand we should refrain from murder not because it affects our lives negatively but because it's inherantly wrong but alot of the time that just isn't enough. Obviously he either felt his life was over anyway or felt justified considering the notice he gave and the reactions he got.

I personally think although he is deeply disturbed to do something like this he doesn't deserve the death penalty because he is still young and may be able to make amends for his deeds and become a productive member of society.

I would find him more twisted and disgusting if he tortured someone and killed them rather than this premeditated murder since torture is gratuitous and takes pleasure from others pain.

He did what he thought in his mind had to be done nothing more, nothing less...he did not deface the body he just removed what he perceived to be the problem in his life.

If I was to recommend a punishment for him it would be something along the lines of 20 years maximum security jail/youth offenders time and counselling/rehabilitation throughout his life, with bail to be considered solely on the outcome of phychiatric evaluation.