Artists Are Separate From Their Art

[Fuyumine]

But it is damn-near impossible for the audience to separate the two.

Not because they don't want to, but because humans by default have these things called—you may have heard of them—emotions and beliefs. I know that saying that you can separate an artist and their work is the cool or "right" thing to do as a rational human being, but being unable to separate them is perfectly normal, perfectly just, and perfectly human.

One thing that comes to mind is this Orson Scott Card situation and his views on homosexuality and same sex marriage. The lot of us are here are familiar with his work and his legacy, and that's what we love him for. That's what we should love him for. But his views are a problem for a lot of people who think differently, and as such they are no longer able to read or support anything he does. Is this wrong? I don't think so.

People that feel like others are stupid for being unable to separate an artist from their art are insensitive (that's nice speak for "asshole"), simple and plain. Because none of them ever put themselves in the shoes of the offended. I mean, think about it. Imagine being a Jewish person with a deep rooted pride in your heritage. Imagine having a love for Hemmingway novels. Now, imagine your friend tells you that hey may have been an anti-semite. You would flip out! You'd search every page on the Internet to find evidence pointing away from that possible fact, just so you could continue reading and enjoying his work.

And I threw "pride" in that example for a reason, because in a case like that being Jewish isn't enough. It would be for some people, but not all. Not most. Because what are some of the things people care about most? Their beliefs. Their ethics. That's reason enough to kick your favorite artist to the curb for something they've done. And to say that it's stupid or ignorant for anyone to do that is insensitive and mechanical.

Hell, a lot of the times when people say those things it's about issues they don't particularly care about. You've witnessed this kind of thing before. You perhaps even experienced it.

Remember when Sean Connery said that it was OK to slap a woman in the mouth if she didn't shut up? There were three different reactions from three different types of people. You had the people that were completely outrated by it, the people who didn't give a damn, and the people who did not really agree but were not affected by it too much. The latter two can probably watch Sean Connery flicks ad nauseam, and maybe throw a wife beating joke or two while they're at it. Why? Because it doesn't linger too far ahead of their own system of beliefs and ethics. I'm willing to bet that the majority of the folks that didn't know about Sean Connery's "Smack-A-Bitch" creed before reading this can go back watch any movie he's ever been in with little to no problem.

To finally end this (LOL), I'll just say that it's perfectly fine if you don't like Brad Pitt anymore because you think he's a cheating scum bag, or if you can't bring yourself to watch Seinfeld re-runs because Michael Richards is a racist asshole, or if you refuse to invest money in anything involving Disney because Walt Disney hated the Jews. It's OK. It's rational. It's human.

Discuss.

[BlackJack]

Well, your last paragraph makes a lot of assumptions. Especially about Walt Disney. The biggest piece of evidence for that "fact" is an established urban legend. But that's beside the point.

I agree that there is nothing inherently wrong with distancing yourself from an artist because of something that they had done. I personally do not do this. I still listen to Pearl Jam, even though they support Abortion, and I do not. I still watch Tom Cruise movies even though I think he's a nut. But I understand if some people don't feel the same way.

[Mellusia]

I'm willing to bet that the majority of the folks that didn't know about Sean Connery's "Smack-A-Bitch" creed before reading this can go back watch any movie he's ever been in with little to no problem

Dude...Did you study psychology or something? X_x

I heard a few jokes about that particular thing, but I never knew what it was exactly, but even now, I know I could watch Connery's movies still.

As for the general topic, I think that depending on how much of a fan your are, for how long, would definitely influence your opinion of learning unsavory truths.

If you're relatively new to the particular person's works and such, and then find out something bad about them, it's easier to stay away from future works since you didn't know of them that well.

If it's someone you've been a fan of for years, and then suddenly found out something bad about them, it'll be harder to resist enjoying their work since you've come to enjoy it, right?

[Fuyumine]

Well, your last paragraph makes a lot of assumptions. Especially about Walt Disney. The biggest piece of evidence for that "fact" is an established urban legend. But that's beside the point.

LOL wasn't the point, though. Because to be fair, no one knows if Brad Pitt is a "cheating asshole" or not. We can only go by what tabloid media has told us. But the point of the paragraph was to show that regardless of what we think we know about an artist, it's fine to distance yourself from them if their actions contradict your beliefs and/or ethics.

I agree that there is nothing inherently wrong with distancing yourself from an artist because of something that they had done. I personally do not do this. I still listen to Pearl Jam, even though they support Abortion, and I do not. I still watch Tom Cruise movies even though I think he's a nut. But I understand if some people don't feel the same way.

Hey, man, kudos to you. But I have a lot of faith that if someone's buttons are pushed hard enough, they'd be willing to cut all ties from their favorite artists based on the things they've done or believe. Even yourself. I believe in the whole "never say never" philosophy. Or is that cynicism? I can't tell. Might be both. I don't know. LOL. But anyway, who knows, you might be one of them rare people that just doesn't give a shit.

Dude...Did you study psychology or something? X_x

No, but I like to pretend that I know what I'm talkin' about! xD

As for the general topic, I think that depending on how much of a fan your are, for how long, would definitely influence your opinion of learning unsavory truths.

If you're relatively new to the particular person's works and such, and then find out something bad about them, it's easier to stay away from future works since you didn't know of them that well.

If it's someone you've been a fan of for years, and then suddenly found out something bad about them, it'll be harder to resist enjoying their work since you've come to enjoy it, right

Well, like I said before, I think it's all a matter of how strong an artist's action's conflict with how you feel.

I think that Chris Brown is a despicable person for beating Rihanna the way he did. I witnessed my mother suffer physical abuse when I was a kid, and I was also in a relationship where my girl was getting abused by her father. That kind of thing disgusts me to no end. My younger sister on the other hand, who was too young to know the extent and horror that our mom experienced, and who is also a big fan of Chris Brown, says things like "I think he was wrong but she had it coming!" whilst playing 'Forever on the Dancefloor' on her MP3 player.

You can disagree with something all you want. But all lies in how involved you are with that belief that will determine whether or not you will kick your favorite movie star or recording artist to the curb.

[BlackJack]

Well, I did say that the Walt Disney thing was beside the point. And thank you. I realize that I may be pushed off of some thing because of their creator's beliefs or actions, but currently, that is not so.

And before Lind/Slartibartfast comes in here and contradicts that, there have been times when the message presented in the material itself has turned me off of it. The reason that I think Lind might cite is my view on the band Rammstein. I think that they are talented musicians, but their music is extremely (and often violently) homoerotic, and as a heterosexual, that turns me off. I don't freak out if others like it, or listen to it, I just choose not too.

If I'm not mistaken, this topic is about the artist's outside actions/beliefs, right?


Also, on the subject of Chris Brown/Rihanna: I feel for you, Jules. My mother was beaten and raped by my grandfather, and I am ashamed of and insulted/outraged by Chris Brown (I didn't like him anyway). As for Rihanna, I'm just going to quote the immortal wisdom of Phillip DeFranco, "When a woman is beaten and nearly killed by a man and then she removes the restraining order because she 'loves him', one can only feel she gets what she deserves for no other reason than the hope that Chris Brown will knock some sense into her this time."

[Fuyumine]

Well, I did say that the Walt Disney thing was beside the point. And thank you. I realize that I may be pushed off of some thing because of their creator's beliefs or actions, but currently, that is not so.

And before Lind/Slartibartfast comes in here and contradicts that, there have been times when the message presented in the material itself has turned me off of it. The reason that I think Lind might cite is my view on the band Rammstein. I think that they are talented musicians, but their music is extremely (and often violently) homoerotic, and as a heterosexual, that turns me off. I don't freak out if others like it, or listen to it, I just choose not too.

Oh, wow, I never knew that. But then again, I think they sing in German and I can't understand a lick of what the lead is saying. Interestin' to know.

If I'm not mistaken, this topic is about the artist's outside actions/beliefs, right?


Also, on the subject of Chris Brown/Rihanna: I feel for you, Jules. My mother was beaten and raped by my grandfather, and I am ashamed of and insulted/outraged by Chris Brown (I didn't like him anyway). As for Rihanna, I'm just going to quote the immortal wisdom of Phillip DeFranco, "When a woman is beaten and nearly killed by a man and then she removes the restraining order because she 'loves him', one can only feel she gets what she deserves for no other reason than the hope that Chris Brown will knock some sense into her this time."

LOL Couldn't have said it better myself, man. That's pretty spot-on on how I view the situation (as far as Rihanna goes).